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Post by Host Kyle on Feb 20, 2006 10:20:00 GMT -5
The Doctor is In is open for discussion!
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Post by Host Kyle on Feb 20, 2006 10:25:16 GMT -5
Hmmm....maybe I'll start the discussion...
First of all, sorry for the long wait. Busy, blah blah blah, life, you know the drill and I know it doesn't excuse the commitment I've made.
Also, these chats were particularly hard to sift through seeing as how I had to edit half of each of them for copy and paste. That's really hard to convert into a story you want to be somewhat "real" rather than "online".
I guess this leads me to my first discussion...just out of curiousity. Though copy/paste was sadly allowed in this game...what are your feelings on it? We all did it. I hate it, always have, yet in this game it was a must if you wanted to defend yourself. Also some people (you know who you are) who boast of how great, skilled players they are modified their copy/paste in order to "set people up."
To me....that's "gross". There's no skill to it. Anybody can do it, and once it's done the crap hits the fan, and there's no way the victim can defend himself.
Just my two cents.
Talk amongst yourselves.
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Jake
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I am NOT a pretty pretty princess.
Posts: 50
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Post by Jake on Feb 20, 2006 11:56:20 GMT -5
I've always been hugely against copy/paste as a strategic move in any way, I think it makes the game less pure and less like the real thing, but I do understand why Karen allowed it (although I disagree). I do not remember for sure, but I do not recall copy/pasting at any time during this game. If I did, it was probably once or twice and extremely minor.
As for the rest of the episode, all I'm going to say is that - as much as I seem to be blindly following people and letting other people play the game, I was still absolutely always my own person in this game and never let anyone "feed me lines" or anything even mildly resembling that. My words are my own, and if they were premeditated, I would have been sure at least not to contradict myself (as I did in that particular conversation). I look like a weak player, but I stick with what I know - and what I know has worked for me before.
Yeah, that's all.
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Isaac
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Posts: 72
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Post by Isaac on Feb 20, 2006 14:49:23 GMT -5
In my opinion, this episode is one of the huge turning points in the game. Why?
Well, I think people are finally starting to put all the pieces together. For me, that episode was a HUGE wake up in the game. As you all saw, I was overly-confident, and it really woke me up to what was actually happening.
I feel bad for Ryan. He was treated poorly before his exit. While it is true that he did tell some lies, he has several fabrications against him.
It's cool to see Kyle, Missie, and I waking up to what was really going on in this game. Of course, not everything is still put together.
And as we can see, Beth is showed as playing both sides of the fence. But people still don't quite realize this until after this vote.
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Post by Host Kyle on Feb 20, 2006 16:40:42 GMT -5
***EDITED to clarify there was a post before this that someone deleted.***
Yes, Robby, you saying that these episodes are slanted to people on my side will make me very pissy, and I better have some back up on this.
No chats in any way have been modified to make anyone look bad, stupid, ugly, better, smarter....however you want to view them. No chat happend in my stories differently than they happened in the game. The ONLY modifications made to chats were to make a point more understandable than grammar permitted. Some chronology was changed and some chats were spliced or appended where they didn't happen but I did this when separate chats followed the same point and helped the flow of the story. So nothing about what was going on in people's heads or how they were playing was changed. NOTHING.
The only persective of mine forced upon you in these episodes are the descriptions included in between conversations that I glean from the contexts of said conversations and confessionals which do not lie. And these are included to spiff up the story.
If you looked ugly in this episode its because you were ugly.
If you looked stupid, its because you were stupid.
If you looked conniving it's because you were conniving.
If you looked innocent, it's because you were innocent.
Was I innocent? Not in the least. Was I hung up on death to SCer's? Absolutely...to a fault. But my demise was already being plotted to "one place better than last time" before any of this surfaced, and I knew this. So tell me where I should've gone in the game, hmmmm?
So yes....you saying these episodes are slanted to my benifit will make me very pissy, and I will open up every d**n journal for everyone to read if that's going to continue.
As far as letting go....this is episode discussion isn't? That's what this board post game is for isn't? People rant and vent about their perspectives, and it's totally ok.
Robby, I will let go of this game the moment the winner is announced, but right now, I am still having fun being involved in the game, revealing the way I played, why I played, defending myself, apologizing for actions, hearing others' views, hearing others' defenses. As far as letting VD go...I will win the winner of All Stars is announced, because this is continuation of VD as it is St. Patty's Day, Independence Day, Halloween....
So yeah. Anyone else want to charge me about manipulating their game play to suit me? I'll listen and I will grovel and kiss your feet if you prove me wrong because I can be wrong. But I think every chat and confessional I have read in this game speak volumes of everyone's game play.
To some, if you don't like the way you have been portrayed, I'd venture to say you shouldn't have played that way. My lies and my sneakiness are in there for all to see. What more do you want?
Oh and my problem is not being outplayed or people's plans working against me...not at all. My problem is unneccessary play where people's faces are rubbed in crap before they exit, or entire group chats running down every cast member because they aren't a "cool kid." I assure you I have played in no other game where people have been treated worse than they have been in Holidays. Character assassinations, lost friendships, personal business brought into game play, people told they suck or aren't good enough before they exit....I thought I left this stuff behind when I walked across the stage in a cap and gown.
Don't get me wrong....this affects me in no way when I step away from my computer...oh my gosh I could care less. But right here in this alternate universe where some people here, this may be all the have...it MATTERS.
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Post by Christopher on Feb 20, 2006 17:14:10 GMT -5
Hey everyone. Hope life finds you well! Kyle, I wasn't going to say anything one way or another about the eps, because I respect how much time and energy you've put in and I didn't want you to feel like that time was unappreciated. Nothing is worse than a buch of players (I remember this back in Okinawa) complaining about their portrayals when someone is putting in long hours to write the story. Yes, Robby, you saying that these episodes are slanted to people on my side will make me very pissy, and I better have some back up on this. But, I think in order for all of us to feel okay with the "editing" as it were, we have to recognize that it is a story, and that we are characters. Particularly, when one of the players is writing the story. It can't be totally unbiased, and it can't "not have a perspective". It does, and there really isn't any way around that... The only persective of mine forced upon you in these episodes are the descriptions included in between conversations that I glean from the contexts of said conversations and confessionals which do not lie. And these are included to spiff up the story. This is the part where I cringe sometimes while reading episodes. I will always stand behind what I say, and have no issues with any of the chats you have posted (although it does seem like most of the chats where I am kind or supportive haven't managed to make the episodes - but I understand it is the less interesting side of my character and would make for less exciting TV.) There are times when what is written as being "inside my head" actually has no bearing on how I felt at the time. So, while it may seem distinctly one way to you as you have read my chats, I will admit to thinking "wow...he sure is reaching to make me look a certain way." But, as you know, I haven't complained to you about that, and I don't plan on it. I'm just adding to the discussion, and trying to point out what Rob might mean by slanted. In some ways, I think it is impossible to deny that the editorial stuff (the non-chat/confessional stuff) IS slanted. And that isn't your fault. You are one guy, and when you read things you see them from your perspective. You certainly can't check in with each of us and make sure we "agree" with what you are putting in our thought bubbles. But...while writing the story, decisions are being made about what is shown versus what isn't...and thought bubbles are being written. And, I'm going to give a nod to Rob here and say that sometimes I absolutely go - that is so NOT where my head was. But it's okay. By no means can an episode be 100% accurate, or even close. We had far too many people and far too many relationships/plotlines for it ever to truly be out in the open. I know for me (and again - I so understand that the episodes HAVE to be trimmed) that whole relationships & friendships haven't been shown (me & Angie, for one). My friendship with Ryan is another great example - I considered him a buddy and my affection for him is definitely one of the reasons I cut him off when I found out he tried to get me out. He was somebody I was really enjoying getting to know. But we pretty much don't talk in the eps at all, so when I appear to be overreacting to his plan...I actually did feel betrayed, because we did, in fact, have a relationship. So I think, in keeping peace and harmony (which is where my head has been, and will continue to be at post-game), we as a cast just have to view it as a story, where we happen to be characters. Some of it is fact, and there is a part that has to be fiction. Much like the TV show. Wherever there is an editor/writer, it comes from perspective. And perspective is, in the end, individual. Again, I hope this doesn't seem inflammatory...but I think the discussion is interesting, and I had some thoughts on all of it.
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Post by Host Kyle on Feb 20, 2006 17:33:06 GMT -5
No Chris, I truly see where you are coming from with that. And I thank you for that. You've hit the nail on the head about my thought misnomers to some people. I can't know what was in your head and all I have to base your thought processes on are chats and confessionals immediately before and after the fact. But without them, the story would be bland.
And yes, if I developed a relationship between every single person in this cast, which some instances would mean including long chats about nothing....these episodes wouldn't be novels...they would be epics.
Yes, this is a story, and yes I truly believe we are all characters to a certain extent. I am most assuredly not so opinionated and confrontational in real life, and I do not aggressevively try to take control of things. For some reason that is a role I take on when I sit down at my computer. However, some of this characterization has been brought into real life into the minds of some people who won't forgive even outside of the game. That makes it less of a story and more true to life.
Anyways....enough of that. I assure you, without giving anything away, your more supportive moments are coming. Just as my uglier moments are. It's all the flow of the story.
Please, everyone, if you have an issue with "thought bubbles" I have given you...please come to me about them before you call me out to all who are reading these episodes before we can figure out the descrepancy.
If you would like your own true thought bubbles for events you know are coming up, message me. In the same vein, if I have a question, from here on out I will ask before I write them.
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Taylor
New Member
Man, you really are a bitch!
Posts: 62
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Post by Taylor on Feb 20, 2006 19:43:27 GMT -5
Okay, I've put down the crack pipe and I'm thinking before I write this. I just want everyone to know this, and I'm sorry Chris, I'm sorry that I am retarded, mentally challenged, because we all know that you are just such an intellect. I'm honestly very upset and bitter about these comments that you and others are making ( not that I didn't know you were making them, and not that they weren't deserved at points) but enough is enough. I'm very sick and tired of my I.Q. being questioned, when exactly are we going to get off the playground people?
On the whole issue of the slant in Kyle's writting. It's there, but it can't help but not be there. Because even though Kyle is doing a fantastic job at this we all had a view point in this game, and he can't help but bring his to the episodes. I think he tries to present it in a fair light, and he does a good job of it, but like Chris said, the thoughts that " I" think are sometimes completely off, and I honestly wanted to work with you Kyle, and I hope that you can see that now reading my journal, you all just assumed that I was so far up Jenne's ass that I couldn't think for myself, if anyone had brought me an actual logical plan that would have worked, not just Jenne hate, I would have gone with it.
Maybe Chris can take himself out of the story and look at us as characters, but I can't. I said these things and wrote these confessionals as Taylor, and maybe Taylor comes across as a retard online, so someone attacking me and my character and my intelligence will always be painful. So what if I can't spell, or sometime wear my emotions on my sleave, doesn't mean you get to attack someone for it. Through these games ( and this one the most) I've learned that, and I know I've sent out my fair share of attacks as well, but I've tried to stop. I kinda wish others could too. I think it just shows the maturity level of some of these people.
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Post by Christopher on Feb 20, 2006 19:57:57 GMT -5
Okay, I've put down the crack pipe and I'm thinking before I write this. I just want everyone to know this, and I'm sorry Chris, I'm sorry that I am retarded, mentally challenged, because we all know that you are just such an intellect. I'm honestly very upset and bitter about these comments that you and others are making ( not that I didn't know you were making them, and not that they weren't deserved at points) but enough is enough. I'm very sick and tired of my I.Q. being questioned, when exactly are we going to get off the playground people? Maybe Chris can take himself out of the story and look at us as characters, but I can't. I said these things and wrote these confessionals as Taylor, and maybe Taylor comes across as a retard online, so someone attacking me and my character and my intelligence will always be painful. So what if I can't spell, or sometime wear my emotions on my sleave, doesn't mean you get to attack someone for it. Through these games ( and this one the most) I've learned that, and I know I've sent out my fair share of attacks as well, but I've tried to stop. I kinda wish others could too. I think it just shows the maturity level of some of these people. Taylor...I hate to ruin a plot point in advance, but I'm going to put it out there. You are 17 years old. You told everyone (for years now, starting back when you were 13) that you were 8 years older than you were. And while you are a bright young man, you never EVER came off as someone over the age of 20. And that isn't a slam about maturity or intellect...just life. No 13 year old or 14 year old or 17 year old should be expected to come off as an adult. Unfortunately, you held to those claims. And that led to people thinking you were...a fairly immature, spastic adult. Not to mention (and I am sorry to bring this up, and I hope it isn't too embarassing) the many claims of making Survivor finals, when it clearly wasn't true. Again, for a 17 year old you have your head on straight. But as a 23 year old...it just didn't work. Had any of us known your true age I think that you know we would have been much more careful with you. So while there are a fair amount of shitty things said by most of us about one another at some point, part of what led people to say what they said about you was a number of lies on your part, both about your age, and some other assorted things. You kinda have to recognize that and then balance that with how you were treated once people finally knew your true age. People were very careful with you. I think you can see the difference that the truth can make.
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Isaac
New Member
Posts: 72
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Post by Isaac on Feb 20, 2006 20:01:51 GMT -5
I have two things to say.
1. There is always going to be a bias. We are human. Get over it please. Kyle is doing the best he can, and he is doing an excellent job.
2. I agree with Chris about everything he said. Although Taylor, no name calling is appropriate. However, maybe you can better understand why it happened.
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Taylor
New Member
Man, you really are a bitch!
Posts: 62
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Post by Taylor on Feb 20, 2006 20:03:23 GMT -5
This is what I'm talking about Chris, you know what, it's not worth my time to agrue with you. I just want to say that I understand the harsh comments, but it's still rediculous the things that were said about me, it's also very rediculous that you would even post what you just have posted without consulting me. You know what, I know that the truth is wonderful, it's great I get it, you really don't have to rub it in.
Maybe you should think before you speak.
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JoJo
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Smile....you're an all star!
Posts: 89
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Post by JoJo on Feb 20, 2006 20:05:44 GMT -5
I really appreciate the comments everyone, because this board has been way too quiet lately and at the same time I have been worried that if I post, a few things might happen. One, I might be seen as stirring the pot, or beating a dead horse. Two, I might seem ungrateful to Kyle who is busting his butt on some really well written episodes. Neither of these things are true. Kyle, your episodes are appreciated and really good. Rob and I both have agreed on that many times, for the record. I appreciate that you encouraged us to post some thoughts and opened up communication again.
I have thanked Kyle for making me "look good" in the episodes and he says he is not doing that....but i feel that the thought bubbles, Kyle, aren't objective. I have felt it strongly during the two episodes. I look like my thoughts are telling me right vs wrong....but someone like Chris looks often like he is interested only in hurting people or causing drama. The thing is, I think the stories are better because of the thought bubbles! BUT, then our author, who felt like there was an elite clique, or perhaps really likes that phrase "bitch four" (which 3 out of the 4 dont even recall) gets to put his emotions, opinions, or personal judgements into those thought bubbles. Does this make sense? It has been my only beef Kyle. You know I care about you very much, so please read this knowing that we have always been able to disagree but still remain friendly.
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JoJo
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Smile....you're an all star!
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Post by JoJo on Feb 20, 2006 20:16:16 GMT -5
OH! I almost forgot!! This is actually episode related! hee hee
I never ever told Taylor that Kyle was playing too pushy. When Kyle came to me on that (last episode, I think?) I was so pissed that Taylor would say that, and I told Kyle I would ask Taylor about it. Kyle made me swear not to tell Taylor, so I didn't. But I'm telling you all, I never said it. So, in the episode when Kyle said this: mama jojo felt a bit like boo hoo!
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Taylor
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Man, you really are a bitch!
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Post by Taylor on Feb 20, 2006 20:19:16 GMT -5
Christopher, I thank you for that, I always will, don't doubt it, but posting that here tonight was low, and tottally crappy to Kyle, and myself. I think one thing ( you know to spoil another plot point) that upset me was that you or JoJo told me that that comment was in reference to Drew, not me. So while you're lie wasn't a whopper, maybe you can see that lies hurt as well.
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Post by Christopher on Feb 20, 2006 20:26:07 GMT -5
OH! I almost forgot!! This is actually episode related! hee hee I never ever told Taylor that Kyle was playing too pushy. When Kyle came to me on that (last episode, I think?) I was so pissed that Taylor would say that, and I told Kyle I would ask Taylor about it. Kyle made me swear not to tell Taylor, so I didn't. But I'm telling you all, I never said it. So, in the episode when Kyle said this: mama jojo felt a bit like boo hoo! There's a fair amount of that, though. The focus seems to be solely on me & Jenne as "the bad guys", but right in the episode I saw this: Kyle: Yes, and I would love it! Chris thinks he’s so secure by his responses to Ryan tonight. Missie nodded and laughed. Missie: Oh, hell yes he thinks so. I fronted him about Jenne today and got what I wanted. There is no way I can finish above her. He said how much he likes her and would not want to vote her out, but if everyone did, he could not stop them. Turn into this: JoJo: Oh my…do tell! Kyle: Vote Lis, but shhhhhh. Chris pretty much destroyed himself with his fight with Ryan. He also told Missie she would not go farther than Jenne. ...which I have no problem with. Survivor is a game of misinformation. But a lot of people are using the card, not just two of us. All in all, a very exciting episode in terms of developments. I much prefer reading what happened rather than living it, though! H-E-L-L.
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